Mark Driscoll, Pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, is always great fodder for blogging. At least once a month he does something that places him in the headlines of the big 5 Godblogs and I would love to know how many comment sections have been inundated with detractors and supporters of whatever antics have landed him in proverbial hot water. In all honesty I have found it rather easy to stay out of the conversation. Seattle is a world apart from suburban Temecula, and I am no Mark Driscoll. He has very little appeal to my congregation, even our young minister students. In fact most of our congregants would only have a vague idea of who he is.
The “always ready” founder of Pyromaniacs, Phil Johnson was embroiled in one of the more recent blogging transactions, with our infamous friend, but if you haven’t kept up with the latest post on “The Rape of Solomon’s Song” by Dr. John MacArthur then you are behind in your Driscoll blogging for the last week or so. For the record I listened to Mark Driscoll’s sermon. I didn’t find it quite as bad as I expected after reading Dr. MacArthur’s posts. I also don’t agree with one commenter who referred to Dr. MacArthur “as a huffing old prude, going on about how the “beautiful metaphors” didn’t suggest anything that Driscoll was saying,” but I agree 100% that Mark Driscoll absolutely abused that text. However, I do believe that there is a generation who ignored conversations about sex, but that is a different post for a different day. Mark Driscoll’s “exegesis” was very much akin to poetry classes I took in college where 30 students could have 31 interpretations of what the writer meant by “a ship passing in the night”. A best guess is not exegesis. And telling your church that Christ demands oral sex in marriage is at best tactless and at worst blasphemous. But it will take someone smarter than me to find exactly where on the scale that statement fits.
One of the more interesting aspects of Driscoll’s notoriety is the draw he has on young ministers. Particularly, the now absurdly labeled “young restless reformed” crowd. I have read his books, and I must admit they are not only very entertaining, but for a church planter myself it becomes very easy to relate to certain situations that he has faced in his own ministry. I also find his lack of pretense refreshing. This is a guy that I mostly agree with theologically, who has grown a very large church in one of the most difficult, godless areas in the United States. It does make one pay attention. However, I absolutely understand the head scratching that goes on in certain Calvinistic circles when they pose the question amongst themselves. “How can a guy who is this crass, and “potty mouthed” appeal to so many young ministers?” The answer is not as difficult as you might believe.
My favorite theologian is Jonathan Edwards, but in all honesty I have to read his sentences about 10 times before I can figure out what he said. His diligence at study and theological accuracy are something to aspire to.
One of my favorite preachers of old is George Whitfield. He lived a pious life preaching to thousands, raising money for orphans, fighting against the corruption and lethargy of the state church. He spent his life as a poor missionary preacher who had a tremendous impact for the kingdom of God. He was such a man of character that that alone was sometimes what saved him from real trouble with the authorities of his day. Living a life of character such as Whitfield did is something to aspire to.
John Piper lives what he preaches. He has adopted kids, he exudes humility and lives that way, sets missions as a priority and gives everything he can plus some in that area. His zealousness for Godly living is something to aspire to.
I cannot live up to the standard of these great men of God, and these are three examples of hundreds in our past and present. Men who did not seek notoriety, but gained through their impact on the kingdom of God.
Mark Driscoll has a church of ten thousand plus people. He is arrogant, he is crass, he curses, he drinks beer, he smokes cigars, he talks about sex openly. He is the 21st century Gene Scott with better theology. He is in many ways the opposite of what most people have considered “holy living” for the past so many years.
I can live up to that standard.
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36 year old husband, father, pastor, singer, musician, reader, eater, rider, watcher,
Amen Brother
Just think if he was David Son of Jesse… adulterer and murderer
you could definitely live up to that standard
Psalm 51
Create in Me a Clean Heart, O God
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.
1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me…
Scott,
I’m a little confused. Are you saying it is a good thing that you can live up to the standard set by Mark Driscoll?
Lord have mercy on us all
No Hampton, I am just saying it is easy.
I think that Scott has tapped into the real problem that has always plagued us sons of Adam. It is the old problem of “cult of personality” or “hero worship.”
Where is the I like button on this?
"For the record I listened to Mark Driscoll’s sermon. I didn’t find it quite as bad as I expected after reading Dr. MacArthur’s posts."
Really? Is it just a matter of opinion as to whether or not a pastor talks about a woman's hey-hey (using medical terminology, of course) from a church pulpit with children present is in good taste or not? If your kids were present, would you have found the message "not as bad" as you expected after reading MacArthur's criticism of it? Seriously. I don't mean to pick a fight at all. Exegesis of SoS aside, and I happen to believe the book has allusions to intimacy, but my goodness, to speak of specific sexual acts from the pulpit in mixed company, kids, married folks, singles, I don't see as being left up for debate here. Maybe that just my old 40 year old prudeness coming through or something.
Fred, it is not something I would have preached or even wanted to sit through. As far as kids in the service I was told by one of the worship leaders at Mars Hill that the kids are not brought into the service until after the sermon, which is at the beginning of the service. So I don't know if there were kids in this particular service or not. That aside, knowing Driscoll's past, and reading Dr. MacArthur's critique I really did expect it to be worse. I didn't say it wasn't bad.
The Song of Solomon is about Christ. Did Driscoll ever mention that? I haven't listened to his sermon.
The particular sermon given in Scottland did have children 12 and under present. They are clearly visible on the youtube video, plus some who were there contacted our church privately asking John what his take on it was, and one of the things they mentioned troubled them was the presence of children. And isn't it a bit weird that we have to subject a church service to a rating system. "Don't let the children in until after the message because the pastor is going to provide sex tips from a biblical perspective."
Again, maybe its my 40 year old prudeness, but I find using the pulpit to give a sermon providing sex tips a stumbling block for sin.
Fred
I don't know about a "stumbling block for sin" but "foolish" definitely.
Can someone actually send me a link to the Driscoll sermon in Scotland? It looks like I may have to actually watch it so that I can have integrity… since it looks like I may have to comment about it.
I can't find that video. Help me, brother, please.
From what I understand, that video was pulled. It was part of the group of links pulled from the web in that so-called "spring cleaning" post Driscoll's supporters claim demonstrates his "repentance" from such discourse in the pulpit.
Fred
Has he repented of such discourse?
I do know that his SoS series is still online that he preached at Mar's Hill.
"Has he repented of such discourse? "
I have yet to see any fruit of serious repentance in this area. Removing a few obnoxious messages does not equate repentance any more than walking an aisle at the end of a emotionally charged church service.
Mark Driscoll said publically concerning the whole fallout about his sermon:
"After finishing my fourth and final sermon of the day at Mars Hill Church and before heading home to kiss my children before they went to bed, I received two emails from an older pastor whom I respect very much. In love, he brought to my attention a piece of content from me online that some of my critics have picked up on. It was a message I did out of the country a few years back on the more controversial sections of the Song of Songs. To be honest, I was unaware the content had been posted on The Resurgence. Apparently it was from 2007, and the file was posted about a month ago as part of clearing a backlog of content. Thankfully, I got to preach the entirety of the Song of Songs at the end of 2008 and did a better job with the text than I had done previously. Subsequently, I would commend that content if you are interested in in studying the Song of Songs.
Allegedly, some of my critics were concerned by the older content, and I think there is wisdom in some of their concerns. So we have pulled that content.
In closing, I want to say three things.
One, I am not mentioning my critics, my friend who brought this to my attention, or the content for gospel reasons. I don’t want to speak ill of my critics, I don’t want to drag my friend into something that does not directly involve him, and I don’t want to draw attention to the content because it will only cause those who have not listened to it to flock to it.
Two, I want to thank my critics for teaching me that I have multiple audiences and that in addition to the room I speak to I am often also speaking to the world and need to keep repenting, learning, and growing in this skill for the sake of the gospel. In that way, my critics are helpful, and for them I am grateful.
Third, this blog is not edited so please forgive any obvious errors. I have a great copyeditor, but she’s a mom at home asleep with her family and I did not want to trouble her this late as it’s 10:32pm.
For Jesus’ Fame,
Pastor Mark Driscoll
Mark Driscoll ….what is one to do with him. I have read him,listened to him and in general have been left both shaking my head and saying yes , amen. He is a man’s man , a John Wayne of preachers if you will. He appeals to my son’s age group (16-20) because he talks and writes plainly and clearly , in terms that they can I understand. Plus in general he has grown in his speech . If I were to compare him to anyone in church history , it would be that loud , overbearing , obnoxious little known reformer , Martin Luther . Just kidding , I love Luther and love his candor and bluntness. So its not like we haven’t had a controversial figure before.
I know of old preachers who are way more prude then John McArthur. I love Johnny Mac’s preaching and have benefited so much from him, but I think his critique of Driscoll is about as bad as his dispensationalism. He complains that Driscoll flaunts our freedoms in Christ too much and doesn’t emphasize holiness enough, blah blah. Give me a break. I went to MH for a couple years in Ballard Seattle and was challenged more about holiness, the gospel, and Christ-centered preaching more then any other church I’ve ever been to. And it was communicated in such a way that it was so interesting. It’s not just Driscoll either but all the pastors there and many from their Acts 29 ministry who are the same way.
Also 1 Cor 7 does says spouses are not to deprive each other of sex so Driscoll’s interpretation of SoS wasn’t necessarily “!!blasphemy!!”. Also, the whole “cussing pastor” rumor that Donald Miller started in his book “Blue Like Jazz” is ridiculous. The only “cuss” word I ever heard him say from the pulpit was “damn” when he said “some of you have been going to church here for a long time and you don’t do a damn thing”. It was an awesome rebuke that I wish more pastors would say!
I think so many people don’t know what to do with him or what to think of him at first because he’s not the type of pastor we’re used to seeing. In the words of Fiddler on the Roof, “Tradition!”.
~ Cameron