Question for Prof. Engelsma. Assuming as I think it is legitimate to do, that Mozart was not a believer, does Prof. Engelsma think that Karl Barth was simply wrong in his view that Mozart’s music will be played in heaven? Is there any sense in which Mozart’s compositions glorify God, even though he did not intentionally compose them to the glory of God? Suppose we found out that Mozart had a profound conversion just prior to his death. Would this make a difference in how we assess his music?
Prof. Engelsma: Karl Barth, of course, thought Mozart himself was going to be in heaven, and not only his music. As I recall, he became uncharacteristically indignant with Dutch Reformed theologians who denied Mozart’s salvation, and said hard things about Mozart. He called them, ‘ stupid ‘, and said they had hard and stony hearts.
As regards the question itself, probably behind that question is the suggestion of Kuyper and Bavinck, that cultural common grace implies that one day some of the great cultural products of our present time are going to find a place in the New World. And they appeal to a text in Revelation 21, as I recall, that speaks of the nations bringing their honor and glory , and the kings bringing their honor and glory , into the New World. Scripture gives no reason to think that the cultural products of the present age, whether of unbelievers or believers, will be taken into the New World. Rather the Bible teaches that , quote, ” the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ” end quote, 2 Peter 3:10, and that nothing enters the New World that ” defileth “, Revelation 21:27. The glory and the honor of the nations that go into the kingdom of God, according to Revelation 21, are the spiritual honor and glory that the nations have by the work of the regenerating Spirit of Jesus Christ in the elect of those nations. According to the Bible, the only works that find entrance into the New World are the works of the dead who die in the Lord. We read in Revelation 14:13 that ” their works do follow them “, and even then they don’t follow them as cultural products, a house that they built or a painting that they painted, but they follow the believer into heaven in the sense that God remembers their good works, and rewards them for it.
I’d like to explore this question just a little bit further with you. The theory that the cultural products of unbelievers may find a place in heaven, leads to intolerable, painful possibilities. I suppose that Dr. Mouw and I would not object, in a foolish moment, to Mozart’s music being in heaven. But what if there’s a member of the church who has no taste for Mozart’s music at all, must he put up with that music in the New World? And what about some church member, young church member probably, whose musical tastes are warped, who might propose that the music of some rock band also be included in heaven. Must I be open to suffering that hideous din in the New World? I address what I regard as the main point of the question. When the reformed faith condemns, as I believe it does, all works of the unbelievers as sin, it is referring to the activity itself of the unbeliever in performing that work. It is not condemning the cultural product: the car, the painting, the symphony, or whatever it may be. These God gives us in His great work of creation, just as He gives us a mountain to climb or to view, for us to use and enjoy to the glory of God.
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Very interesting: The activity of pagans, not the products thereof, are necessarily sin.
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“According to the Bible, the only works that find entrance into the New World are the works of the dead who die in the Lord.”
Great. Does that mean I’m going to have to listen to a lot of crappy contemporary Christian music for the rest of eternity? I’d rather have Mozart!
If I’m not mistaken, this is taken from a debate with Richard Mouw in which Engelsma denies the doctrine of Common Grace.
That was a very interesting debate. I highly recommend it to all.
This is the same Mouw involved in the recent Mormon debarkle. Amazing stuff.
Mark
That is really interesting.