I am always fascinated to hear someone who has truly embraced post modern thought attempt to communicate in that manner. On the Founders Blog under the comments we have one of the best examples I have ever read. If you have never really been exposed to true post modern thinking (which is what most Emergents embrace) then you will enjoy this little clip from Nate Russell in a comment to Gene Bridges. If you want the full context visit the Founders link above.
The idea that any doctrine come solely from scripture is ummm…slippery at best. In that the desire to assess a doctrine as coming directly and solely from scripture is to attempt to give it the same authority as scripture. This was the nature of many heretical groups within the early church. Funny thing the early church councils did not appeal to scripture to defeat these heretical ideas. They appealed to the Rule of Faith, they appealed to the nature and content of their worship. I am not stating that Beza’s claims are false, I am merely stating that your argument is one which naturally requires one of two responses: Unchallenged acceptance based on your linking of the idea with the authority of scripture by those who know not better, or a very strong challenge based on the Great Christian Tradition by those who understand what is at stake. The first response it seems is the one you desire, and is the one you received so much praise from. However, be careful not to put yourself or Beza in the position of the Ivory tower. My point here is NO ONE COMES TO SCRIPTURE UNTOUCHED OR UNINFLUENCED BY THEIR POSITION IN SOCIETY, HISTORY, AND LIFE. To claim such as a posted on a previous topic is to claim to be God, because only he has the view from no where.
He goes on to say in later comments.
Yes there is a hint of postmodern thought within mine, but only in that it has rightly shown the false claims made by modernism in that we can know objective truth with certainty. I am not claiming that there is no objective truth but rather that to claim with certainty that one knows exactly what God intends is to take a large step towards heresy. And I must point out that the strongest point I made had nothing to do with philosophical developments of the last 100 years but rather with the way Christianity throughout its history has gaurded(sic) itself against doctrinal error. However, you did not make any refute of that. Also, at what point does the Bible claim to be the “word of God”. Last, I read that title was reserved for the One and Only Son of God who became man. The bible is the Spirit-inspired testimony of men to the God’s work in their lives and in their world. The bible does not claim anything more, except in the specific instances where the LORD’s words are directly recorded. I hope my claims don’t disturb you.
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I am not claiming that there is no objective truth but rather that to claim with certainty that one knows exactly what God intends is to take a large step towards heresy.
This is a very serious comment to make. Basically, while he defends the idea that truth is objective, he denies that such truth can be held with certainty. In essence, he is saying that God is not good enough or strong enough to make his will known to mankind.
Heresy is not just the steadfast embracing of wrongful beliefs, it is also (as a corollary) the steadfast rejection of truth.
Is he absolutely certain of all that?
I’ve come to refer to such comments as “the standard Emergent Boilerplate.” Darn near all of ‘em say much the same thing, though you have to push a few of ‘em to get ‘em to say it in public.
Ahhh yes — how awesome to stand on the shifting sands of truth. When you mix man’s opinion with scripture — it is never good.
Looks like Gene gave him a little lesson in reality in that thread. But to Nate’s credit, he showed much humility in “waving the white flag” in the face of overwhelming evidence in opposition of his position. Too bad more pomo types don’t take this approach.
This was painful to read. I don’t know whether to thank you or knock my head against a wall. And even though I’m sure every reader of this blog has the exact same thoughts, I just feel compelled to point out two things that are really bugging me.
1) “to claim with certainty that one knows exactly what God intends is to take a large step towards heresy” – What about the places that begin “This is the will of God for you”? Or “Thus sayeth the LORD”?
2) “Also, at what point does the Bible claim to be the ‘word of God’.” – *chokes on own saliva* What?! *searches for words to express the horror this statement and those which followed evokes* WHAT?!
I honestly feel like going and crying right now. What’s the use of ministry when supposedly “Christian” people are able to make claims like this with such cool self-confidence? “Taking large steps toward heresy” indeed!